30 April 2009

Gay Marriage is NOT That Important

Sure I'd love to be able to legally wed Marcus. But really, at least in the western world, we don't have it that bad. We've actually done quite well for ourselves. There aren't any signs in shop windows saying "No Gays Allowed", we aren't constantly denied employment, and our houses of worship aren't burnt to the ground. We aren't treated that unfairly by the rest of the country. Our neighborhoods are generally safe, expensive, and well kept. We have a disproportionate amount of representation in national government and national media. So why all the angst? And why is it directed at gay marriage?

Gay marriage should be at the bottom of the list of things that get our community's panties in a knot. The things we should be fighting for is freedom for gays in places where they are being persecuted and executed. Or the teaching of "gay is OK" during sex ed in public schools. Or a cure for AIDS. Or discrimination protection. Or universal health care. Or free college education. Gaining marriage rights doesn't give us equality. It just means we'd be free to get a divorce and give those good-for-nothing exes a claim to the money they didn't earn and the house they didn't build.
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56 comments:

  1. I'm very afraid that when gay marriage passes universally that gay divorce will quickly follow. And what kind of an example is that? I prefer things the way they are now. Let the heteros keep divorcing each other and preach the "sanctity" of marriage. What makes us gay is that we ARE different. All I care about is "separate but equal".
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  2. another point about gay marriage that mason failed to mention...if the union of man and man was what was actually the issue, the polls show that most every state would allow such a thing...but truth be told that is not the issue, the issue is the word used to describe the man 4 man union. and because those who give a shit INSIST that it be the same term that has for thousands of years described a hetero-relationship which thereby offends (rightly or wrongly) the majority of people then the fight is lost and no gains made. faggots just want to divorce like their hags do...they want something else to bitch about.
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  3. Couldn't agree more. From a practical standpoint, gay marriage is a non-issue. Legally recognized gay marriage just opens up a whole new area of practice for divorce attorneys. Otherwise gay people will continue to live their lives more or elss as they have been for the last 20 years. The push for legalally recognized gay marriage is just the latest attempt to make Mommy and Daddy accept us for being queer, whether they want to or not. "Look Dad! The government says its okay so now you have to like it!" Meh.
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  4. I disagree. Some of us have boyfriends who could be deported if their immigration status runs out. Heterosexuals can give their lovers citizenship and end the nightmare. No so for gay couples.

    But the bottom line is we're equal or we're 2nd class citizens. Violence against the LGBT community is our most serious issue, but that will take longer to solve. First we need to be equal and have it be no big deal. Hence marriage is the issue of the moment for us...
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  5. Surely you mean to include Europe in your notion of "western world." In the week of April 13, three stories of suicides by elementary school children were reported on Towleroad due to bullying on sexual/gender identity grounds. I would hesitate to say that there isn't an issue of equality at hand when children, no more than 12 years old, are being harassed to the point of killing themselves.

    No, maybe we don't have as gruesome circumstances as people having their anuses glued shut and then being fed diarrheic drugs, but there is still a huge schism between where we are and where we should be.
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  6. eh, you should talk less and post more pics of you getting fucked...

    Marriage isn't about just being able to say, "Hey, I'm married!" It is when your bf MArcus gets sick, you can visit him in the hospital. Or, if one of you dies, you don't have to pay taxes on what you two bought together. It is so that if you wanted to adopt, you could. The lost goes on.

    Educate yourself a little sir, and then post a blog.

    Until then, give us what we want.. and shut the fuck up.
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  7. Gay marriage (or equivalent) is important for one big thing: you have the same rights of the straight couples.
    And I mean practical rights, not just nice words. If you stay 20 years with the same person, you don't want to be treated like a stranger or a roommate in front of the law.
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  8. Actually i would like to see a push for civil unions, rather than gay marriage. Fuck the religious aspects of marriage. Who wants to get married in some old stuffy church anyways. These religious zealots will fight to the bitter end to keep us from getting married.
    We are wasting time trying to convince these people that we should be able to get married. In the mean time, gay couples are losing the rights that they deserve. Rights such as visitation rights in hospitals, property rights,and tax benefits.
    Our community is a very creative lot, and we could make civil union ceremonies WAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYY better than boring stuffy straight marriages.
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  9. Thank you. I wonder as to why People in this "Western World" have Marriage on there #1 priorities.

    Always love your stuff
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  10. It seems strange that you say it's not important, but if you are saying it to god knows how many people, it must be important to you in some way. Or else you wouldn't mention it....I may be missing the point, but whatever...
    As I said in a previous post, the States are technically "behind" as an average. It will only be a matter of time before they catch up to rest of the world.
    Xx_RavsDesire_xX
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  11. Hmmm I think you may have missed the mark a little on this one, sweet pea. While I agree that marriage is not the end all and be all of issues it is still important.

    Marriage isn't about the name "marriage" call it husenfluffenutter for all I care. What it IS about is the right to visit your spouse in the hospital and make legal decisions without the unnecessary red tape that an embittered family might pose. Inheritance rights and as you pointed out legal guidelines in divorce settlements.

    Sure we can gain most but not all of these rights through powers of attorney and other legal documents. Why should we need to jump through so many hoops though?

    Not to mention the fact that it makes it that much more difficult to discriminate in matters of adoption, business transactions, employment, etc. if there are already legal precedents in place that recognize partnership.

    I am all for including gender identity in ENDA, granting asylum to victims of sexual persecution in other countries, reforming our immigration laws to fully include same-gendered partners, and proper sexual education in schools. Some if not all of these things will fall like dominos though with the hurdle of "marriage" overcome.

    Also remember you're basing this on the media's representation. While I am sure they aren't greatly exaggerating the emphasis of our activists on marriage equality, media is not always the unbiased and full truth of matters.
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  12. Lol.. The first time I read one of your posts like this I almost dismissed it, thinking you were joking. But I've been quite pleasantly relieved to see that I'm not the only one that has thoughts like this.
    It also helps me feel that I'm not such a horrible gay person for having thoughts like this!! So for lack of a better comment, THANK YOU for speaking your mind on stuff like this! Definitely a relief from some of the usual dribble you get on other blogs!
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  13. Mason, you say in the very first line of this post that you would 'love to get legally wed to Marcus' but that you 'don't have it that bad'.

    Well, picture this...

    Imagine you've been with Marcus for 30 or 40 years and even though you have never been able to get legally married you're very happy together.

    Then, one day, he gets sick.

    Imagine, if Marcus's family had never approved of him being gay and hated you. They now come back into the picture and you suddenly find you have no visitation rights in hospital because you are not considered his next of kin. The very time you need to be with him most, you aren't even allowed to see him, let alone give him comfort or support.

    Then, imagine if he got so sick that he died.

    If he'd made a cast-iron Will (if there is such a thing) then you might be safer - there'll be a big court case when his family contests it and where all the assets mentioned in the Will get used up fighting the case but, hey, you might win the moral victory...

    But what if he didn't make a Will? And what if the house was in his name?

    Now, not only are you grieving, you now find you have no legal claim to your own home and his family evict you from the property. Again, you could fight this. Again, you'll end up broke. And still homeless.

    But, what about the fact Marcus had worked for a big company and was getting a fat pension - surely this will now go to you?

    Well, it might have if you were has been his wife, not just his boyfriend...

    Now, I realise asking you to imagine your boyfriend getting sick and dying may not be the funnest way to spend your time (!) but this hypothetical situation is exactly why gay marriage is a fundamentally important part of the struggle for equality that you guys in the USA need to fight for tooth and nail. While some of us, quite naturally, would rather not try to imagine the stage when we're no longer young and healthy, one day, inevitably, we won't be. And at that point, for some couples, a situation like this could end up being very real indeed.

    As a side-note, I'm based in the UK where we've had gay marriage for a while now. Actually, technically we have 'civil partnerships' which is gay marriage in all but name. The main reason for this was that the word 'marriage' has religious connotations and although it was seen as a bit of an appeasement to the Christian-right when our government went with the other term, most of the people it affected weren't that fussed because most thought it was more important to have their relationships validated in the eyes of the law rather than a 'G/god'. I don't know about you but, given the choice, I know which I think is more important.

    Maybe having 'civil partnerships' could work as a compromise for you guys in the USA too...just a thought.

    Good luck in your fight.
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  14. Gay marriage is so much more than being able to get divorced. And I know you are smarter than the ridiculous comment you make in the post. Yes all the things you mention as important are. But the recognition of gay relationships as equal in the law will help bring human respect to a minority class that it is now o.k. to put down and treat unfairly by the majority. Recognition of gay relationships will go a long way in teaching that it is ok to be gay as you say is important.
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  15. I refuse to accept being a second class citizen. I don't know if I will ever get married, but knowing that it is an option available to me as well as every heterosexual person in this country is, quite frankly, a big deal.

    I agree that ending senseless violence against LGBT individuals is probably our top priority, and when you find a silver bullet to fix that, please let me know. But the way I see it, the only way to do away with the hatred we face is to gradually weed out the notion that many in this country still feel: that LGBT people are lesser human beings. Fighting for our right to get married like any other is just one way we can do that.

    Civil unions are a great first step, but they are not enough. The Supreme Court struck down the concept of "separate but equal" in the landmark civil rights case Brown v. Board of Education, and in the end, civil unions are just that -- an institution with similar (if not equal) rights associated with it, but separate from marriage. We have to consider all the people who fall under the umbrella of LGBT. Surely there are religious/spiritual gay men and women out there for whom being married in a church is important and meaningful.

    In the end, though, the term "civil union" doesn't carry enough weight. For many, the perception is that unions are a step below marriage. I, for one, want the ability to get married, to share the joy and commitment that being married would entail. I understand we may not all feel this way, but I'm disappointed we aren't all willing to fight for our rights as Americans, or at least support those who do. We are fighting an uphill battle against hate and intolerance. Any victory is a step in the right direction.
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  16. Well I can understand your point of view I take any blog from a "Porn Star" With a very light grain of salt.
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  17. I do agree that a cure or AIDS should be way ahead of gay marriage, but as long as there aren't laws banning us from existing or further curtailing our freedom, it can wait
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  18. in a free society everyone should have equal right under the law, no matter what the issue, and that baby boy is just one of the tenants that makes the marriage issue important to 80% of the Queers..a sure fire way to address any issue particular to our people is having a "hot topic" to lead the discussion of ALL the things we need and desire..the marriage debate is energizing a lackluster Queer political community and turning myopic twenty somethings into activists and that is always a good thing..
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  19. Steve Fleming, I read your post, and saw that you lived in the UK. So just wondering how "civil partnerships" work in England? And also liked the points you made in your missive.
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  20. gat marriage is very important to me.and i am getting married next moth.could u please keep your idea your self,who do think you are?
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  21. you've all missed the point. the point is that people should be able to do what they want, so long as what they want to do doesn't harm anyone. if 2 men want to celebrate their love and call it "marriage" and copy EVERYONE else they see around them doing the same thing, why the hell can't they? and why the hell can't they get the same rights/privileges that go along with it. if you have a problem with those certain rights/privileges being granted to the married, then that's one thing, but in the grand scheme of things, in a world where you gotta pick your battles, why would you be against such a thing. mason's right: there are much bigger fish to fry. but this is the fish that has the nation hooked, so do your bit and fucking fight for ALL gay rights, not just the ones you feel like choosing a la carte.
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  22. Sorry Mason, but like Luis said you obviously don't know the benefits of marriage. It's far more than a piece of paper or simply saying you are married. I'll give you just a small example. Say my boyfriend was in a serious car accident and is on his death bed. 1) I have absolutely no legal rights to his medical care or approve any possible life saving operations. 2) Say his parents don't like me, they can have be banned from the room regardless of how long he and I have been together.

    There are many more examples I could give you. Legally marriage is more than just a word, it comes with a plethora of freedoms and rights that we are denied.
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  23. All that stuff about "oh what happens to your property if he dies", "what if his family kicks you out", "you won't be able to visit him in the hospital", blah blah blah. Spend a couple of bucks, hire a fucking lawyer, draft and sign a couple of contracts, a will, and a living will. Done. You end up in the same place. All the rest of the screaming and crying and bitching that it *must* be called "marriage" just like the straights is about sticking it in the face of religious people who made you feel bad for being queer when you were 13 years old. I am gay. I am not straight. I do not want to be a part of a straight institution. I wasn't made for it and it wasn't made for me.
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  24. I find it interesting the backlash Mason's getting for his opinion. Remember guys we live in a society that allows free speech supposedly. So whether you agree with him or not (and I happen to agree!) Mason has every night to state his opinion.
    And to the guy who takes porn star's opinions with a grain of salt...... that's a bit of a closed minded attitude don't you think? Grow up.
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  25. Thats odd, cuz I don't see anyone writing that Mason isn't entitled to his opinions. I see some disaggreement on what he wrote, but isn't that part of free speech and dialogue? I'm sure Mason doesn't write this stuff just to have everyone agree and bow to his every word.
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  26. I have to agree on this point, the act of getting "Married" in the grand scheme of things is relatively unimportant. As a fairly normal gay guy, I do my bit as a member of society as a whole, I pay my taxes, I have a long term partner to share life with. Speaking for myself, and probably my partner, neither one of us has ever thought much about getting "Married". We have been together for 18yrs, met in college & have been together as a couple ever sense. We grew up, traveled, matured, lived/live life. If we were ever discriminated against because of our sexuality, either we choose to ignore it, or were unaware of it. I point all this out for the purpose of description of a couple of guys, living as contributing members of society, paying our taxes, obeying our laws, voting in our elections, volunteering in our community. Further more, I don't believe we are unique in who/what we are. Getting "Married" is probably not top on my list of things to do, not that I don't want to, it just not that high on my list,,kinda like registering to vote important. Here is my real point, if today, it were legal for same sex marriage, tomorrow, same sex marriage will be a non issue. Divorce, of course, those crazy hetero have to put up with it,, so do we,,, but the important point is,,,the distinction between "us & them", "hetero's & mo's", "straights & gays" becomes even less distinctive,,,one step closer to everyone being treated the same before man. I know its little,, but bigger things are accomplished,, like as Mason says: "The things we should be fighting for is freedom for gays in places where they are being persecuted and executed. Or the teaching of "gay is OK" during sex ed in public schools. Or a cure for AIDS. Or discrimination protection. Or universal health care. Or free college education." Marriage is a small step,,but an important step in creating a level playing field,,,,,,,, just sayin,,,,,,
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  27. I disagree with you here. Marriage isn't about the title...its so much more then that. I live in Canada,so when you get married like i am...you will know what i'm talking about. Don't get me wrong all those other things are VERY important...but THIS topic is important to 90% of gays. I will make us equal....and yes i know we will NEVER be truly equal..but this is a step. What bothers me most is that someone with your " some what celebrity" doesn't try to help this this..but trying to hinder it. Thank the gods we have better gay role models. You may say " im no gay role model"..but you could have been.
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  28. I don't think anyone's disagreeing with Mason's right to this opinion, people are just disagreeing with his opinion. I don't really get how that gets lost in translation so often, but disagreeing with someone is a far cry from denying them the right to their opinion.
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  29. All these opinions kinda reminds me of this line my mom keeps quoted from "Home for the Holidays," "Opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one and thinks everyone else's stink." But yea I agree there is a lot of change to be made but Marriage is a big issue right now because of its media coverage and its a stepping stone to tackling other issues. I'll admit I want to be able to get married someday but its not the only issue I am concerned with and I am fed up with everyone assuming it should be since I am a gay.
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  30. @spinboy220: Yes and that is a good thing. Currently, when same-sex couples fail, they're not protected by the courts. Sure it's profitable, but it's also important protection, especially as increasing numbers of gay couples have children.

    @Pragmatic Boy: Living wills (Power of Attorney) are frequently ignored by hospital staff who don't have ready access to those documents and lack the time and knowledge to interpret them. Do you remember to bring all your legal paperwork with you everywhere you go? Does your partner have the hours needed to bring a lawyer into the hospital?

    @Mason: You're absolutely right. It's not critically important for most people, yourself included. But it's invaluable for interstate couples ineligible for health insurance under domestic partnership clauses, or for international couples facing deportation, or for older couples facing loss of estates, or for younger couples with children.

    It's also the most politically powerful way of opening these conversations and getting those more important legal and social protections.
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  31. Obama was easily elected in California yet Prop 8 passed. The exits polls were clear. It was the Blacks and Spanish who sold out the Gays. Not the Religious Right, but the religious Left.
    Obama doesn't have to do anything for Gays, (just like Clinton). Because he knows how Gays will vote every election. However, he still wants your money. Suckers.
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  32. I've been saying this exact same thing for YEARS. I'm so glad to see you say this Mason.
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  33. Mason, I partially disagree with you. sure that more important issues are gaining political, social recongnition in a mainstream society, but your argument that we need to get more equal may no longer be vaild anymore, and I do not think there will be a day, when being Gay will have normal consensus, as gays will never be a majority by nature.

    But most importantly we Gays have gained more preferable status; People may not agree with what we are, and some of them never will, but we gained common consensus that we are not something that can be exterminated, therefore the equal rights has to be guaranteed to gays, as we are part of democratic citizen (Well at least in the first world)

    the main point is that as we ve got such consensus, it is time for us to get the ultimate right of marriage. this may not provide what Mason thinks more important, but what it will give to us, is that It will make us more normal in our daily life, as it is the issue that is effecting us everyday life. and this is my disagreement with mason, it isnt that important as overall, but it is important because it is tangiable right that I can feel the benefit on daily basis.
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  34. You know, it's stupid posts like Masons that let the pundits on the religious right say, "many ordinary gays oppose gay marriage, so we don't need it."

    As far as helping gays in other countries - the best thing we can do is act as role models for what is possible as a GLBT person - and getting our relationship legally recognized is the ultimate validation for many GLBT people around the world.

    What if we just said, "you know, as long as we aren't getting arrested for sodomy, why should we bother pushing anti-discrimination laws?"

    When I was 24, I never thought I'd be able to marry my boyfriend - or even want to - but after 20 years we did get married in Canada, where we now live, and it DOES make a difference. There are slew of rights and benefits you gain from being married. People also treat you differently. It's like joining a club. It's also nice to know that everything you worked together to create is protected and respected by the government here.
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  35. the certificate may not be the most important but the representation and implication it provides our community are monumental. blacks being able to sit in the front of the bus itself was not what the civil rights movement was about- but the underlying issue of equality.

    without fair and equal rights- do you think we'd have as much ground to stand on when fighting for the things you deem important such as discrimination protection, teaching that gay sex is ok in school, and employment harrasement?
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  36. myspace.com/christopherveronaMay 5, 2009 11:05 PM
    Wow. Such fire. We have gay marriage and it's groovy. Means our international partners can immigrate to be with us (you would be surprised at the number of Americans who had to come to Australasia because the US would not recognise them). Means we an buy a house together, leave our pension plans to the other, adopt children together as a couple etc etc. Not to mention the tax benefits set up for married people.

    Btw, most of the Western nations already have or recognise gay marriage (Canada, NZ, Australia (well, aussie recognises only) all of the EU recognises, and South Africa, so you might want to redefine Western as the US.

    It is shame you guys get so fired up instead of working together and just getting on with it. But that seems to be the US' mojo these days. With or against. Our thoughts are with our gay brothers over there.
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  37. Even if the same percentage of people end up getting a divorce; guess what, the other half would still be married. When will people realize that marriage is NOT a religous event. Marriage is a LEGAL aspect of a relationship which may be performed at a justice of the peace. The religous aspect comes into play only if you decide to have the ceremony performed in a church by a religous official. There are a lot of married atheists out there. I get so tired of hearing the religous right telling us we can't get married because they own the word marriage. Bull, marriage is legal; not religous!!! According to the United States Government Accountability Office (GAO), there are 1,138 statutory provisions in which marital status is a factor in determining benefits, rights, and privileges. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rights_and_responsibilities_of_marriages_in_the_United_States . Do a google search on keywords marriage rights and you will see what we are legally missing out on. If we succume to a different wording then each right we would get by marriage would have to be included specifically to get the same standing as marriage already provides. It is so much more than the ability to get a divorce. If you don't want marriage for yourself, please think of the others who do want and need the ability to get married. Please don't help the anti-gay movement by trivializing what is really so important. From Larry Scott
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  38. hey mason why don't you do a scene with Diesel Washington? you looked like you were getting a hard on just standing next to him in that photo. :-D
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  39. Gotta wonder if the US is really that great of a place to live. Don't get me wrong, cause I love this country, but when I read some of the comments from those who live abroad, it makes me wonder if we are falling behind, as far as human rights. And don't get me started with Universal health care.
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  40. What an ignorant post. Not having equal marriage rights does indeed make us lesser citizens. It isn't about marriage, it is about having access to every government sanctioned event that any other citizen would. Just because there are other significant examples of discrimination against gays does not mean that marriage is not important.

    I agree with another poster... just shut the fuck up and let us watch you getting fucked and drop the retarded political bullshit.
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  41. Hahaha...I gotta laugh at that last post by some "anonymous" reader. I think Mason has every right to post what he thinks. I'm not one to agree with Mason on everything he writes. And sure I like watching him have sex with all sorts of hot guys. But I would never say he isnt entitled to his beliefs..and if i did, i would atleast have the balls to leave my name..haha
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  42. Pragmatic boy, those legal docs are not nearly as reliable as marriage, which has over 200 years of American legal opinion and precedent to rely on. Plus, they cost a few thousand dollars, whereas a marriage certificate costs $100.

    I am glad you don't want to get married, that's fine. Some of us want to, however, and we don't feel the need to setup a parallel universe.
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  43. I totally agree with u. What's better if we still get bashed when we're married legally?
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  44. The Inner ChildMay 18, 2009 03:48 AM
    I would love to marry someone I love.

    Is just about celebrating, that´s all.

    Let me tell you that I love the idea of feel a celebrity as you are this close.

    You surprised me with your humor and you are also so smart and talented.

    Hugs from Argentina!
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  45. The Inner ChildMay 18, 2009 04:17 AM
    Dear hottie, hope you´ll have fun in my city on June!

    If you need something just let me know.


    N. from Buenos Aires.
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  46. When are you gonna update the site? One update a month is pretty sad! :(
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  47. I'm giving up... You're obviously an interesting man with something to say, but too much time between posts.
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  48. It is so important for the equality!! The fact that I don't want to marry is so different that I can't marry for law. It's completely different. I'm spanish and I'm proud of my contry for this reason. But probably it isn't the most important thing. But it helps to normalize our rights. Excuse me for my poor english....XD
    xx
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  49. The marriage success rate is 50%... why don't we make our own thang...

    There are people being killed for being gay in the middle east and the amount of gay homeless youth is astounding.. I think it's ridiculous how much attention is put on it.

    We need to get other shit worked out before this.
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  50. Thank you Mason!!!! I haven't been on here in a while but I guess I came back for a reason. I am gay as there is, but I too think that gay marriage should be a low priority. Acceptance and equal rights, I'm all for that!! But for everything else, let's concentrate on other things that are WAY more important.
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  51. It sounds like you're more concerned about us using our money and spending our time in the pursuit of equality instead of giving it to you. You keep talking about the "miniscule" portion of the population we represent. The low ball estimate is 10%. 10% of 250 million is 25 million. That is greater than the population of Texas. How large does a minority have to be before it matters? It is inevitable that the GLBT community will achieve equality. You're how old? Life and more important your marketability begins to diminish after you hit 25. Who knows there may come a day when you are denied familial or property rights because you are gay. You might look at it differently then.
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  52. eander2,

    We are not 10% of the population.
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  53. You can lead a whore to culture but you can't make her think.
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  54. Wyler misses the point. Having gay marriage legalized is a very important step in helping to bring about equality, visibility and normalization. All the other things, such as gay sex ed, an AIDS cure and freedom to be as we are are all helped by the very advent of legalized same-sex marriage, even if just symbolically. Having equal rights confers parity of esteem, which in turn, helps the gay movement. Greetings from Ireland.
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  55. To Anonymous:

    While many of us may believe marriage is a legal practice, not a religious one. I believe on the other hand the very essence of the legal system (including family and marriage laws) is religious in basis. Note that most of the laws that exists today (both in civil and common law countries) have roots in the ecclesiastical laws of the Church in the middle ages, or even older, in the religious laws of the classical civilizations. Hence I believe that the "uphill" battle that the gay community needs to deal with is something far more powerful than simply a couple of printed words in a law annal. It will be a long and hard battle, but it's results would probably be all the more important because it reflects entrenched values are finally changing.
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  56. i agree 100% with gay marriage being the least of our worries but what i do think should be at the top of our worries is since a lot of places are now considering it they should be give gay couples the same rights for instance if a gay couple is married one of the people involved is in the hospital the other should be able to make the decisions that would be allowed to made in a straight couple (lot of rambling looses it point but you get what i am saying :) )
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